Altars, daddies, tucks and trashbins: Marijo Zupanov's Pleasures
Words: Hana Čeferin
Answering: Marijo Zupanov
Marijo Zupanov's name has become virtually synonymous with Ljubljana's predominantly underground queer scene. Attend a drag show or one of the city's weekly queer parties, and you're likely to find him snapping pictures backstage or bending at strange angles to capture the subtleties of the city's (unfortunately few) drag performances. A graduate of Ljubljana's Academy of Visual Arts, Zupanov's photography spans a wide spectrum, from club scenes and fashion weeks to editorials, architectural photography, and intimate personal portraits. His most recent exhibition, titled Pleasures and curated by Jernej Škof, was on display in July 2023 at both Club Tiffany and Škuc Gallery in Ljubljana. Representing his largest body of work to date, the exhibition provided a personal, nuanced, and candid glimpse into Ljubljana's queer scene as captured through Zupanov's lens.
The exhibition consists of five chapters: Daddy Issues and Polaroids delve into his personal relationship with sexuality, Drag Altarsfeatures his photographic homages to drag queens, Style Reports and Kisses showcase his street photography and moments captured in clubs and nightlife venues. Among these, Daddy Issues stands out the most, where brutal erotica converges with unexpected tenderness. Zupanov's unflinching honesty is portrayed through moments where beauty and debauchery appear in equal measure, somehow simultaneously. Never taking himself too seriously, he answers questions about his recent work, his affinity for all things trash and talking to closeted guys on Grindr.
Let's dive right into the interview by discussing your most recent exhibition – Pleasures, a part of which was presented at Club Tiffany and a part at Škuc Gallery. Both engage with the queer community of Ljubljana and involve a mix of personal and documentary work. How do you balance your role as a photographer of the community while also being a part of it?
The exhibition had a general title, Pleasures, which comprised five different segments: Daddy Issues, Drag Altars (presented in Škuc), Polaroids, Style Reports, and Kisses.
I love having a camera with me. In a world where everyone has a phone and everything is constantly documented, it feels special for the queens and club kids to be photographed with a camera. I never aim to capture them in a trashy state. Most of the pictures are taken backstage as drag queens prepare for the show (I never take pictures of a queen in a bald cap, halfway through makeup, or out of drag, especially without prior permission, #tooRevealing) or during the party. We are friends, so my presence doesn't make them feel threatened, and they trust me.
What I also love is that they never pressure me to take pictures of them. Instead, they are thrilled when I ask for a photo, and they genuinely enjoy posing. It's funny and heartwarming because, elsewhere, nobody likes to be photographed, but everybody loves to chase me the day after in my DMs for the pics (#bastards). So, it's a party, not a photo session. Managing this selection of images is light and easy.
On the other hand, the Daddy Issues series was created in a really organized way. It always instilled a sense of fear in me about photography. Just like any pre-arranged photoshoot, it takes away the spontaneity and the freedom to click whenever you want or not click at all. But you have to do it, and it's like throwing yourself into a stream, swimming, and hoping for the best, finding joy in the process regardless of the outcome.
You present your work in various institutions, ranging from galleries to queer alternative clubs. Do you believe your work functions the same way in every space? Is there a difference in presenting it, for instance, in a city gallery compared to a queer-friendly club?
My personal work and solo exhibitions, which I believe are the best way to present oneself, were almost never featured in a gallery. I think institutions are afraid of addressing themes such as queer or erotica. It's very easy to discern the mindset of institutional representatives because there were none present at the opening and hardly any afterward during the exhibition. It's a matter of the openness and courage of city galleries, their leaders, and curators to come and be receptive toward the content provided, rather than just focusing on the function and reputation of the place where the exhibition is held. I would have no problem with my work being displayed in the parliament, city gallery, or a gay bar. Champagne tastes delicious in a gay club the same as it does in the city gallery. :)
Part of your work is dedicated to drag queens, particularly in the series Drag Altars, where you intervene in their portraits. What are your thoughts on the drag scene in Slovenia? It appears to be gaining popularity internationally, yet remains predominantly underground in Slovenia and the Balkans.
I love our drag queens and wish that they could have the same opportunities to make a living out of drag as their counterparts in more developed cities, where there are more venues for performances. Here, some comedians and impersonators have such opportunities, but drag queens still need to fight for their place in public events that cater to larger audiences and on TV.
Why did you decide to build "altars" to the queens you photograph? What do you look for in drag photography?
The concept of 'Altars' initially emerged from my self-portrait. I wanted to authentically represent myself, so I needed to do justice to my own image. For the first time in my photography journey, I decided to completely trash out the frame of my self-portrait, during a group exhibition at DobraVaga in Ljubljana in 2022. This experience inspired me to take a similar approach with drag queens but in a more organized manner, where their frames are thought out in advance, and there's a deliberate use and arrangement of objects around the frame. Altars, in this context, serve as stations of praise, allowing me to pay homage to both myself and the incredible drag queens I work with. Each altar features objects that either relate to their names or connect to common themes and aspects that define them within the drag scene.
I love trash culture (trashy music, tattoos, graphic design, fashion... my Grindr nickname is »Trashbin« and I always get questions around it, whether it's kinky or why I chose such a derogatory name :) ). So I love that I was finally able to admit that to myself and transfer it into my artwork.
In drag photography, I seek to capture the happiness and joy that drag queens embody, mirroring their goal of providing a great time to the audience during their performances. They also grant me the creative freedom to produce conceptual work, as exemplified by my last year's solo exhibition at Gallery Alkatraz titled Under The Tuck. This exhibition was intimate and revealing, celebrating both the pain and the gain of doing drag.
It's interesting that a lot of your pictures are done at parties, but that must mean that you sometimes have to sacrifice your own fun to take the pictures. Do you ever have trouble separating your work from your personal life?
I hate it when people ask me on a date if I have any interests outside of photography. Before Covid, I even considered enrolling in a sculpting workshop just to be able to impress Tinder profiles with the line: 'I do photography and sculpting,' lol.
I found a very pure interest in photography at a very young age. During my years at the academy, I started distancing myself from being a silent observer, especially in student dorms, where hanging out often had nothing to do with our professional pursuits. This shift helped me become more connected with the individuals I photograph. Instead of focusing my attention on capturing the image within the camera's frame, I aim to establish a personal and open connection with the sitter, ensuring a nice and relaxed photoshoot experience.
I'm entirely self-made, and I love that photography is guiding my life. I love that the camera doesn't disturb me at parties or during travel.
We've discussed your role in the drag community and how the altars came about, but what about Daddy Issues? How did it feel to create such a personal series? I'm curious about the reactions to this body of work, both from the individuals featured in the images and the audience at the exhibition. What were the best and worst comments you received?
Daddy Issues started taking shape when I seriously began to consider developing the theme of erotica in my photography. I asked a fuck buddy if I can bring a camera to our date and do some pics of him, and he agreed. I loved it and that roll of film still contains the best picture I ever took in the Daddy Issues series. First and best! :) The name of the series came later. My friend jokingly teased me about the type of men I usually hook up with, and I took the name from our conversation.
At the same time, taking pictures for Daddy Issues immediately became detached from sex itself. I became intrigued by the idea of finding my models on the same dating apps I usually use and, instead of seeking sexual encounters, I'd propose a photo session. Interestingly, most of these individuals were tourists visiting Ljubljana and staying in local hotels. I've always regarded hotel rooms as a kind of no man's land with a high erotic potential, so I'm grateful for the trust they placed in me.
Most men I approached for a photoshoot were either immediately enthusiastic, which was pleasantly surprising, or on the contrary, they instantly declined the invitation. There were a few who were initially curious and asked questions but eventually ended up saying no. I was always hyped going to these shoots.
The entire situation was undeniably erotic yet profoundly human, because it was all about trust and fear. They placed their trust in me, while I grappled with the fear of photography. I kept thinking "Fuck, this situation is a gift from the Gods and all I can think about is the photo..." I should have been in awe, with the clicks firing themselves out effortlessly. What I desired most was to be an observer, to savor every moment, but I had to click! I questioned whether I would fuck it up, if I was truly connected to the moment, or if photography was merely an obstacle in between.
The arrangement for the photoshoots always had one rule: no recognizable elements, including faces, tattoos, body marks, jewelry, or even identifiable locations, should be visible in the final photo. This is why some of the photos are scratched or painted over the print. I love hidden identities in my work because it shifts the focus away from asking 'who is it?' and creates kind of kink, leaving you to observe the situation itself without knowing who's in it.
Since it was exhibited in a gay club under the title Pleasures, there were no negative comments. We can divide the feedback between the most common question and the most surprising comment. The most obvious question was, 'How many of those men did you have sex with?' And the most surprising comment I received was, 'Oh my god, it's clear that you're super romantic!'
Do you find there's a difference between the erotic and pornographic? Which (if either) were you trying to capture in Daddy Issues and what would you wish the viewer of your work would take away from it?
Instead of saying erotica is a kind of broad term and porn is only a segment of it, I'll say that erotica gives and porn serves, haha. Both are about pleasure but in my opinion, porn provides an instant and superficial satisfaction, while erotica (which can be found both in sexual acts or in the way someone walks) doesn’t leave your head for days and years and lifetimes. So in that sense I could say I hope my pics will never leave the viewers' minds.
The LGBTQIA+ community is represented in most of your work. How important do you think it is to make queerness visible in the current political/societal climate? Is it – for you – a political issue?
The battle for LGBTQIA+ rights is ongoing, so it's always important to provide visibility to the community in our everyday lives. I love to contribute to the cause through my art, by attending queer parties and events, or just having conversations with closeted guys on Grindr. This brings me satisfaction, even though I'm an openly gay individual.
This effort is inherently political because it addresses the pervasive issue of inequality, which leads to fear, ongoing struggle, courage, and the ultimate joy of being oneself. The choice of the exhibition's general title, 'Pleasures,' stems from contemplating what a heteronormative society deems as a 'guilty pleasure' or a 'sin,' even though it's very much 'real life' for us.
I want to know... what comes after Daddy Issues? Is there a topic that interests you at the moment or you feel you want to dive into in the future?
It's going to be about Trans issues. I haven't found a clear motif or approach yet, but it's going to be that for sure.
